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[Music]

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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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from Australia for science and reason

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hello and welcome to the skeptic Zone

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episode number 521 for the 14th of

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October 2018 richardsaunders here with

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you from Sydney Australia and in a

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strange sort of time warp I'm recording

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the show earlier this week I'm currently

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at the Australian skeptics National

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Convention skeptic on hopefully getting

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lots of reports with Maynard for you for

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the coming weeks but it's such a busy

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week ahead as I record this some days

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earlier that I'm putting the skeptic

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zone together now if that makes sense

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coming up on this week's show an

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interview with Melbourne magician mark

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Mayer I recorded way back in 2005 on a

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previous podcast I did or show I did

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called the skeptic tank I interview mark

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Maher about psychic detectives police

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psychics specifically Alison devar who

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we have not heard about for many years

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come to think about it she certainly had

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her time in the Sun and heyday was in

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the mid 2000s she might be still kicking

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around I'm not sure but her ilk the

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people who think they have psychic magic

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powers or maybe even don't who plagued

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police give relatives false hope

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collectively known as the psychic

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detectives they're still very much in

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force and just lately I've been doing a

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lot of research into these sort of

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people sadly interesting if I can put it

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that way

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so yes an interview with Mark Mayer

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about Alison devar and you could take

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this generally to be about psychic

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detectives from from whatever era

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whatever age following that once again

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once again here in Sydney last weekend

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it was time for mind body spirit all

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together now mind body wallet I went

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along to mind body wallet with my

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friends Lara and Linden and we wander

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around and I make some observations that

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scarcely have changed over the years

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mind body wallet isn't interesting

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sighs it was really crowded when we were

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there it's quite big it's worth it to go

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as I mentioned in this report it's

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always worth it to go along to a New Age

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festival or Fair you learn an awful lot

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and I always click brochures and flyers

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from all the stalls and every now and

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then we can use those in the form of an

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official complaint to a government

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department when we think something is

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wrong or shonky or in breach of the law

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or something like that but over the

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years we can and I have built up quite a

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library of these flyers and information

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from these peddlers of whoo when to

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round off the show may not skeptics in

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the pub and Maynard's ask the big

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question what can you scientifically

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analyze music is there a scientific

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formula for a hit song along those lines

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a bit of light-hearted fun with main art

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at the end of the show so not quite your

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normal sceptic zone this week I hope you

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find it entertaining and informative

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nevertheless and as I said I'm really

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very busy getting ready for the the

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skeptic on which is on right now as you

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hear this oh if you're hearing this on

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Sunday the 14th it's on right now

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if you're hearing this later it's over I

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hope it was good but now it's time for

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me to run downstairs and mm-hmm

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I think ooh a fried egg sandwich mmm

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that sounds good while I enjoy that I

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hope you enjoy the skeptic zone

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[Music]

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now from the Year 2005 I interview

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Melbourne magician Marc mayor on a show

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I was doing at the time called the

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skeptic tank Marc mayor is a Melbourne

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based mind illusionist Marc began

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performing magic professionally at Caffe

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crypt in Exhibition Street in Melbourne

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he now performs at leading corporate and

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private events nationally in his

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performance he explores the mysteries of

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the human mind and brings together a mix

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of humor magic ESP and mind-reading

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Marc has appeared on national television

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including a Current Affair

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mornings with Kerry Ann good morning

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Australia and in Siberia tonight as well

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as numerous radio stations major daily

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newspapers magazines and websites before

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making magic his life Marc was a Qantas

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airline pilot he now combines a pilot's

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fastidiousness with a performer's

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flamboyance to great effect and presents

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his mind illusions in his own unique and

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trademark style now we better get stuck

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into the subject now of course you know

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the subject of this skeptic tank is

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psychic detectives and I believe that

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you you have been researching the

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subject to some extent well I have

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written yes as specifically I've been

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one called miss Allison du Bois or as

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we'd like to call it Allison dubious

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she's been the top favorite right now of

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the media and one of the most famous in

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the world right now calling herself a

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psychic detective and so yes I did some

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research in some detailed debunking of

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her for her recent trip out here to

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Australia she was out here promoting her

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book called don't kiss them goodbye so I

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thought that was particularly

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distasteful and that the public needed

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to have a little bit more of a balanced

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view of what she was about and what the

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TV shell is about and what generally

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psychic detectives climb and what they

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claimed to be able to do and sort of

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hopefully protect people with a little

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bit

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or general knowledge about the whole

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thing so yeah I noticed that there

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Allison devar when she was here opposed

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in the last month or the month before

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she certainly had a lot of media

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interviews lined up and she she'd

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participated in a lot of news and she

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also hid from a few to Richard really

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but yeah I had a little bit of a media

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profile going myself I had I think I did

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is about seven or eight interviews over

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radio a number of them were supposed to

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be at the same time with Allison I was

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supposed to be on Jon Faine show with

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Allison but unfortunately the scheduling

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that didn't come to fruition and there

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was two other ABC radio interviews that

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we'll supposed to be on at the same time

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and had a little head-to-head however

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mysteriously she got sick from both of

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those interviews it didn't wasn't able

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to participate but yes there was quite a

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bit of media interest in was

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unfortunately all very soft interest

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they gave her a completely free ride

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without any critical interviewing at all

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the first series of TV shows which was

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called medium was based on a basically a

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series of misleading claims in the

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innuendo and that was all done to create

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a false position of credibility and

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authority it means that the series was

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created by her claiming that she's

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worked with police and claiming that

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she's a criminal profiler claiming she's

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a research medium and then those claims

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not being really questioned or anything

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and from those claims then being able to

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make a actual false credibility like I'm

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thority on this subject and then from

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there a whole TV networking studio

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making a show about it it really quickly

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unravels if you put a little bit of

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scrutiny to it she as most of the

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psychic detectives offers not a single

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shred of verifiable evidence and I can

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get specifically to some evidence that

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she does claim to have in her book don't

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kiss them goodbye which we'll come back

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to which is a really interesting piece

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it ends up being the same old anecdotal

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stories and accounts made up by her and

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their associates with no actual

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follow-up proof the media especially the

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tabloid media and the last thing they're

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going to do is question that as far as

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they're concerned it's it's absolutely

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true well it's absolutely true and plus

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it's great for business see this is one

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of my contentions with the psychic

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industry psychic phenomena throughout

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history is a wonderful business and now

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with our modern media with radio

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television Internet and

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LD TV etc etc psychic shows psychic

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informations anything psychic is big big

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bucks you look at anytime Oprah has

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anyone to do a psychic or connecting

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other side it's a huge bumper show so

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the tabloids want to perpetuate any

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myths and want to perpetuate any things

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like this purely cuz it's great for

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business with no responsibility really

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and I must I just must preface something

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here I just remembered everything I'm

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saying now is preface it with I believe

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any litigation anything from the think

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tank having to bail you out of a High

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Court of Australia

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everything I say is I believe these

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things to be true whether them be sued

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or anything else well the management

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staff do not necessarily take it exactly

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so tell me tell me more about what you

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perceive to be the case of a Seabury

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case well Allison has to and most of the

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psychic detectives are in the same ilk

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as this I'm not just talking about

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Allison but most of them claims some

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very major claims and her specifically

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are as follows she claims to be a

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criminal profiler and a research medium

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now both these words are even carefully

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chosen to create again as I said

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credibility and authority when you pull

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yourself a criminal profiler that means

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that you gives the image of I'm someone

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who knows what criminal profiling means

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in their forum must be qualified to do

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that job

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she's not a criminal profiler not by the

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slightest measure of a criminal profile

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the actual term current profiler comes

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from the FBI they invented that term

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about 30 years ago and it's very very

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basic form to call yourself a criminal

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profiler you have to have studied

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forensic science or psychology or police

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investigation methods and according to

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the FBI if you're going to be a criminal

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profile according to them then you need

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advanced degrees in forensic science and

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in behavioral science plus you need

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eight to ten years experience as an FBI

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agent and then if you have all those

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things the F I still spend another about

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500 hours specialist training good

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heavens I know she's done all that

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I'm sure she's done all that and

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according to the FBI there's only about

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30 qualified criminal profilers in the

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United States she's not a qualified

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criminal profiler

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this is what she

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says I am a profiler blah-blah-blah-blah

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prophytes the first thing she says in a

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book those things she says in all her

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interviews as part of her claims it's a

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falsehood and she's not she even gives

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in her her own book an example of what

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she concedes as a criminal profile on

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page 31 and she outlines this is a

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criminal profile and when she goes into

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it saying I had a feeling the connection

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to California and they like this and

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that the other no they're not criminal

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profiles that's a psychic reading right

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a psychic reading is not a criminal

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profile so the first and foremost things

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Allison Dubois is not a criminal profile

276
00:11:30,629 --> 00:11:29,050
nor is any other psychic detective who

277
00:11:34,199 --> 00:11:30,639
claims to be a criminal profiler

278
00:11:36,269 --> 00:11:34,209
yes it is not in any form or shape or

279
00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:36,279
form a forensic a psychological or

280
00:11:41,309 --> 00:11:37,930
police investigation or behavioral

281
00:11:43,019 --> 00:11:41,319
scientists background so that's just

282
00:11:46,110 --> 00:11:43,029
going straight out the window so there

283
00:11:47,519 --> 00:11:46,120
are actual proper steps to call yourself

284
00:11:49,610 --> 00:11:47,529
these things and this is what I mean is

285
00:11:52,199 --> 00:11:49,620
this is the real deception that the

286
00:11:54,179 --> 00:11:52,209
tabloids in the media perpetuate and

287
00:11:55,889 --> 00:11:54,189
that she wants to create and this is

288
00:11:58,139 --> 00:11:55,899
really fundamentally important because

289
00:11:59,759 --> 00:11:58,149
some people may see this as being swept

290
00:12:01,860 --> 00:11:59,769
away and not that important but this is

291
00:12:03,929 --> 00:12:01,870
the fundamental credibility and

292
00:12:05,759 --> 00:12:03,939
authority is everything in media and

293
00:12:07,050 --> 00:12:05,769
credibility and authority is everything

294
00:12:08,759 --> 00:12:07,060
when you actually want to talk to

295
00:12:10,079 --> 00:12:08,769
someone yeah like someone may ask me

296
00:12:11,249 --> 00:12:10,089
what is my credibility or thority

297
00:12:13,590 --> 00:12:11,259
etcetera etcetera and I need to either

298
00:12:15,269 --> 00:12:13,600
prove those claims or go away and when

299
00:12:17,129 --> 00:12:15,279
you just say I'm a criminal profiler it

300
00:12:18,689 --> 00:12:17,139
sounds like we understand that the TV

301
00:12:20,519 --> 00:12:18,699
show it sort of looks like that we've

302
00:12:22,590 --> 00:12:20,529
seen movies like the profiler and we

303
00:12:25,439 --> 00:12:22,600
know what that sort of means wow she's

304
00:12:26,910 --> 00:12:25,449
one of those my god that gives her again

305
00:12:28,379 --> 00:12:26,920
credibility Authority but it all

306
00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:28,389
unravels when you realize it she's not

307
00:12:32,550 --> 00:12:30,490
and she also claims and this is the next

308
00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:32,560
one I get to she has academic power

309
00:12:37,079 --> 00:12:33,970
behind it because of approving of the

310
00:12:38,370 --> 00:12:37,089
claims so she has this arrogance

311
00:12:40,319 --> 00:12:38,380
strength of saying I have a lot of

312
00:12:42,509 --> 00:12:40,329
people believe me and a lot of powerful

313
00:12:44,699 --> 00:12:42,519
people behind me and so therefore I have

314
00:12:46,590 --> 00:12:44,709
the authority and credibility again to

315
00:12:49,439 --> 00:12:46,600
sell this which is just a falsehood

316
00:12:50,939 --> 00:12:49,449
it's really really sad and the media

317
00:12:53,429 --> 00:12:50,949
mainly work what have challenged that

318
00:12:55,759 --> 00:12:53,439
and those who do actually need to do a

319
00:12:58,439 --> 00:12:55,769
lot of homework to be able to do this so

320
00:13:00,840 --> 00:12:58,449
unfortunately amidst the media and

321
00:13:02,429 --> 00:13:00,850
engage someone like yourself or myself

322
00:13:04,439 --> 00:13:02,439
or someone from a think-tank or someone

323
00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:04,449
who has done some actual credible

324
00:13:07,950 --> 00:13:06,250
investigation and research and comes

325
00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:07,960
from a position of knowledge

326
00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:09,370
I will naturally never challenge it in

327
00:13:12,510 --> 00:13:10,810
these people successfully because they

328
00:13:13,410 --> 00:13:12,520
won't have the depth of knowledge and

329
00:13:15,090 --> 00:13:13,420
it's as simple as that

330
00:13:16,680 --> 00:13:15,100
I guess they wouldn't know what to ask I

331
00:13:18,330 --> 00:13:16,690
wouldn't that's exactly right they would

332
00:13:19,380 --> 00:13:18,340
know what to ask and they wouldn't know

333
00:13:20,580 --> 00:13:19,390
what to challenge what they do things

334
00:13:22,620 --> 00:13:20,590
that comes to my next point which I'll

335
00:13:24,780 --> 00:13:22,630
bring up now I guess yeah when when she

336
00:13:25,950 --> 00:13:24,790
claims to be a research medium and she

337
00:13:28,260 --> 00:13:25,960
says that you know the tests are really

338
00:13:29,460 --> 00:13:28,270
hard acceptor etc she says that she

339
00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:29,470
doesn't get challenged on that point

340
00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:30,850
because no one actually knows what the

341
00:13:34,890 --> 00:13:33,250
tests are none of the media interviewers

342
00:13:35,970 --> 00:13:34,900
know with her as Tessa ole dr.

343
00:13:37,980 --> 00:13:35,980
Schwartz's takes out because I haven't

344
00:13:39,780 --> 00:13:37,990
seen them I remember the same thing

345
00:13:41,010 --> 00:13:39,790
happened with Uri Geller mm-hmm they

346
00:13:43,380 --> 00:13:41,020
don't know what these tests are they

347
00:13:47,100 --> 00:13:43,390
don't know so they can't argue so the

348
00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:47,110
media will not produce a balanced point

349
00:13:50,610 --> 00:13:48,490
of view or a balanced interview because

350
00:13:52,500 --> 00:13:50,620
since they can't do the homework for it

351
00:13:54,420 --> 00:13:52,510
right anyhow this is point number two

352
00:13:56,370 --> 00:13:54,430
research medium so she comes out and

353
00:13:58,440 --> 00:13:56,380
most of them do but her specifically

354
00:14:01,380 --> 00:13:58,450
says I am a criminal profiler point one

355
00:14:03,060 --> 00:14:01,390
and point two I'm a research medium even

356
00:14:04,770 --> 00:14:03,070
those words Richard had chosen really

357
00:14:06,450 --> 00:14:04,780
specifically she doesn't call herself

358
00:14:08,730 --> 00:14:06,460
just a medium I'm not one of the old

359
00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:08,740
ones from like the 1840s when they

360
00:14:11,790 --> 00:14:10,210
started out hearing thump to the night

361
00:14:13,770 --> 00:14:11,800
I'm not one of the old ones who are

362
00:14:16,170 --> 00:14:13,780
sitting in a dark seance tricking people

363
00:14:18,810 --> 00:14:16,180
with ectoplasm I'm not one of those old

364
00:14:21,450 --> 00:14:18,820
ones whoever a roomful of people in the

365
00:14:24,060 --> 00:14:21,460
studio screaming out names and stuff no

366
00:14:26,490 --> 00:14:24,070
I'm a special medium I'm a research

367
00:14:27,650 --> 00:14:26,500
medium which gives again as I keep

368
00:14:30,390 --> 00:14:27,660
coming back to it I know this is a

369
00:14:32,610 --> 00:14:30,400
recurring theme but it sort of is a

370
00:14:34,710 --> 00:14:32,620
theme credibility and authority

371
00:14:37,170 --> 00:14:34,720
she's not just a medium Allison Dubois

372
00:14:40,410 --> 00:14:37,180
is a research medium and she claims this

373
00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:40,420
because she has scientifically proven

374
00:14:44,730 --> 00:14:43,090
psychic abilities that's what she claims

375
00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:44,740
anyhow and when you want to research

376
00:14:48,270 --> 00:14:46,450
this a little bit further you find quite

377
00:14:50,670 --> 00:14:48,280
a little bit about her claims over at

378
00:14:53,130 --> 00:14:50,680
Arizona State University in the

379
00:14:57,120 --> 00:14:53,140
victorious I can't quite pronounce it

380
00:14:58,620 --> 00:14:57,130
Birds the ER I TAS research program over

381
00:15:00,630 --> 00:14:58,630
the last number of years four years I

382
00:15:03,150 --> 00:15:00,640
think was she scored between a seventy

383
00:15:04,430 --> 00:15:03,160
porpoise to a ninety percent accuracy on

384
00:15:08,460 --> 00:15:04,440
all her tests Wow

385
00:15:10,230 --> 00:15:08,470
which sounds very impressive here's a

386
00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:10,240
little detail that she doesn't tell you

387
00:15:14,580 --> 00:15:11,890
an ami of heard of using that none of

388
00:15:17,370 --> 00:15:14,590
the media no Allison plays an active

389
00:15:20,340 --> 00:15:17,380
role in directing and executing the

390
00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:20,350
tests so that's an analogy of let's have

391
00:15:23,790 --> 00:15:21,730
a bunch of schoolboys

392
00:15:24,780 --> 00:15:23,800
my car was a beautiful perfect schoolboy

393
00:15:27,690 --> 00:15:24,790
when I was 15

394
00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:27,700
ha and let me set the test with my

395
00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:28,330
friends

396
00:15:36,900 --> 00:15:32,290
then let me supervise us doing the test

397
00:15:39,060 --> 00:15:36,910
and then let me mark the test later do

398
00:15:40,650 --> 00:15:39,070
you think I might get between 74 and 90

399
00:15:42,090 --> 00:15:40,660
percent accuracy I think that was my

400
00:15:44,460 --> 00:15:42,100
mistake in high school maybe I should

401
00:15:46,230 --> 00:15:44,470
have known look I know I'm being a bit

402
00:15:48,690 --> 00:15:46,240
facetious but this is actually by her

403
00:15:50,550 --> 00:15:48,700
own words if you look at a herb this is

404
00:15:53,670 --> 00:15:50,560
not stuff I'm making up if you look at

405
00:15:56,730 --> 00:15:53,680
the last page of her book in her own

406
00:15:58,170 --> 00:15:56,740
handwriting yes says Alison takes an

407
00:16:00,480 --> 00:15:58,180
active role in the direction and

408
00:16:02,790 --> 00:16:00,490
execution of the tests so this is not

409
00:16:04,890 --> 00:16:02,800
just me making this up I can verify this

410
00:16:06,540 --> 00:16:04,900
in her own words that firstly puts

411
00:16:08,370 --> 00:16:06,550
clearly scientifically proven psyche

412
00:16:10,230 --> 00:16:08,380
Billie's into question yeah but let's

413
00:16:13,410 --> 00:16:10,240
look at who does these tests we have a

414
00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:13,420
man called dr. Schwartz if he's a fine

415
00:16:18,930 --> 00:16:15,610
man to put it nicely dr. Schwartz is

416
00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:18,940
very academically qualified PhD that

417
00:16:22,140 --> 00:16:20,890
means he's academically he's book smart

418
00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:22,150
that's fine that's very good

419
00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:24,130
dr. Schwartz has an emotional and

420
00:16:28,290 --> 00:16:26,410
financial investment into these tests

421
00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:28,300
he has emotional because when you read

422
00:16:32,190 --> 00:16:30,250
his interviews etc you know that well he

423
00:16:34,140 --> 00:16:32,200
wants a success in his test no research

424
00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:34,150
scientist wants to do tests and

425
00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:36,010
continuously fail so he has an emotional

426
00:16:42,570 --> 00:16:38,290
investment and he has also a financial

427
00:16:44,010 --> 00:16:42,580
investment and that also has a well a

428
00:16:45,630 --> 00:16:44,020
slant on this scientifically proven

429
00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:45,640
psych the abilities here there's a

430
00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:47,290
financial investment because two things

431
00:16:51,780 --> 00:16:50,170
one if this tests aren't valid or don't

432
00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:51,790
come up with him so accuracy well the

433
00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:52,810
tests get cancelled you don't get

434
00:16:57,180 --> 00:16:56,050
funding and also he has a plan for

435
00:16:58,620 --> 00:16:57,190
investment cause he has a number of

436
00:17:00,750 --> 00:16:58,630
books he wants to sell he has his own

437
00:17:02,610 --> 00:17:00,760
lectures he wants to sell so you do not

438
00:17:04,500 --> 00:17:02,620
have an independent person without an

439
00:17:06,510 --> 00:17:04,510
emotional financial investment testing

440
00:17:08,190 --> 00:17:06,520
her for a start that's the first part of

441
00:17:09,900 --> 00:17:08,200
dr. Schwartz let's look at these tests

442
00:17:12,360 --> 00:17:09,910
this is really really important this is

443
00:17:15,510 --> 00:17:12,370
a real crux of the matter anyone can be

444
00:17:17,130 --> 00:17:15,520
tested but how they tested firstly when

445
00:17:19,350 --> 00:17:17,140
they meet dr. Schwartz they have to do a

446
00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:19,360
reading on dr. Schwartz and then from

447
00:17:22,380 --> 00:17:20,890
there if he decides that they're pretty

448
00:17:25,020 --> 00:17:22,390
good or whatever they'll go on to

449
00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:25,030
further tests now her first test with

450
00:17:30,390 --> 00:17:27,970
human is accounted in her book and also

451
00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:30,400
numerous other places she sat down with

452
00:17:33,750 --> 00:17:31,810
him and did a cold reading on him and

453
00:17:34,570 --> 00:17:33,760
mentioned that someone or a friend of

454
00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:34,580
his there had

455
00:17:41,110 --> 00:17:38,330
didn't walk alone from this he

456
00:17:43,630 --> 00:17:41,120
interprets that ah that means my friend

457
00:17:46,389 --> 00:17:43,640
who died who was in a wheelchair

458
00:17:47,649 --> 00:17:46,399
bla bla bla bla do I even walk live

459
00:17:50,529 --> 00:17:47,659
didn't even walk now

460
00:17:51,970 --> 00:17:50,539
again he's doing the the general as most

461
00:17:53,620 --> 00:17:51,980
of our listeners will know the cold

462
00:17:55,120 --> 00:17:53,630
reading the sitter makes the information

463
00:17:56,799 --> 00:17:55,130
fit story

464
00:17:59,620 --> 00:17:56,809
oh yes and we've got a whole episode

465
00:18:01,360 --> 00:17:59,630
devoted to reading in our next episode

466
00:18:03,220 --> 00:18:01,370
so listen out for that yeah listen

467
00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:03,230
nothing I won't spoil that but he's

468
00:18:06,700 --> 00:18:05,330
doing he she's doing essentially basic

469
00:18:08,230 --> 00:18:06,710
cold reading and he's falling for it but

470
00:18:09,700 --> 00:18:08,240
he wants it to work and it does work

471
00:18:11,470 --> 00:18:09,710
because he can make her little

472
00:18:13,389 --> 00:18:11,480
statements fit into it so that's the

473
00:18:14,529 --> 00:18:13,399
first part of the test ok the second

474
00:18:17,259 --> 00:18:14,539
pile of the test now which is really

475
00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:17,269
important is that they do score evaders

476
00:18:21,340 --> 00:18:19,850
sit the sittings sitters and the

477
00:18:23,860 --> 00:18:21,350
listeners have to write their readings

478
00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:23,870
she said on the Jon Faine show Alison

479
00:18:28,799 --> 00:18:25,970
guava and the sitter's don't mark easily

480
00:18:31,029 --> 00:18:28,809
they mark very hard well I would like to

481
00:18:33,669 --> 00:18:31,039
contest that statement by reading

482
00:18:36,970 --> 00:18:33,679
something to you from mr. Schwab dr.

483
00:18:38,529 --> 00:18:36,980
Schwartz's own test and remember Alison

484
00:18:41,379 --> 00:18:38,539
just said that the people do not mark

485
00:18:43,629 --> 00:18:41,389
hard I'll give you some examples if the

486
00:18:44,379 --> 00:18:43,639
medium says the cause of death was

487
00:18:46,899 --> 00:18:44,389
drowning

488
00:18:49,539 --> 00:18:46,909
yeah and in actuality the cause of death

489
00:18:51,549 --> 00:18:49,549
was drowning this is called a hit right

490
00:18:53,470 --> 00:18:51,559
and the cities aren't allowed to just

491
00:18:56,169 --> 00:18:53,480
answer yes that was close one no they

492
00:18:59,110 --> 00:18:56,179
are bound to go by these cities of

493
00:19:00,669 --> 00:18:59,120
scoring's ok yeah ok the medium says

494
00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:00,679
I'll just say Alison and then I'll say

495
00:19:04,409 --> 00:19:02,330
sudo say you know what I'm saying Alison

496
00:19:07,149 --> 00:19:04,419
says the cause of death was drowning

497
00:19:10,629 --> 00:19:07,159
however the cause of death was pulmonary

498
00:19:13,149 --> 00:19:10,639
oedema pneumonia or emphysema this is

499
00:19:16,029 --> 00:19:13,159
called a fit again well I was incorrect

500
00:19:18,190 --> 00:19:16,039
but with a mahout interpretation now I

501
00:19:20,289 --> 00:19:18,200
don't know whose decision it is a modern

502
00:19:22,210 --> 00:19:20,299
interpretation on this is merit science

503
00:19:25,180 --> 00:19:22,220
goes straight up the window because a

504
00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:25,190
mild interpretation is an arbitrary as a

505
00:19:29,110 --> 00:19:26,570
subjective thing that they're making up

506
00:19:30,909 --> 00:19:29,120
now ok let's come move on if Alison says

507
00:19:33,610 --> 00:19:30,919
the cause of death was drowning but the

508
00:19:35,620 --> 00:19:33,620
deceased died in a bathtub but not from

509
00:19:36,879 --> 00:19:35,630
drowning ie maybe she had a head shot

510
00:19:38,710 --> 00:19:36,889
off with a shotgun but was in a bathtub

511
00:19:41,139 --> 00:19:38,720
that's called a fit as well

512
00:19:42,879 --> 00:19:41,149
that's called correct I see so in

513
00:19:44,860 --> 00:19:42,889
terminal adaptation it's really hard to

514
00:19:46,810 --> 00:19:44,870
miss it well I'll keep going I'll give

515
00:19:48,070 --> 00:19:46,820
you an answer that if Alison says the

516
00:19:50,740 --> 00:19:48,080
positive was drowning

517
00:19:54,070 --> 00:19:50,750
but the cause of death was an indirect

518
00:19:55,810 --> 00:19:54,080
calls from a terrible rainstorm okay

519
00:19:57,430 --> 00:19:55,820
example you're driving in a car it's

520
00:19:59,680 --> 00:19:57,440
raining crashing tree and birth to death

521
00:20:01,810 --> 00:19:59,690
burn to death but Allison said you'd

522
00:20:02,409 --> 00:20:01,820
cause a death was drowning then that is

523
00:20:05,259 --> 00:20:02,419
correct

524
00:20:08,500 --> 00:20:05,269
with a stretch of interpretation a

525
00:20:10,659 --> 00:20:08,510
stretch yeah mighty big stretch stretch

526
00:20:12,549 --> 00:20:10,669
if the cause if Allison says the person

527
00:20:14,860 --> 00:20:12,559
who died of drowning but it was a close

528
00:20:17,769 --> 00:20:14,870
friend and not the person named then it

529
00:20:18,360 --> 00:20:17,779
was a fit father I don't know what that

530
00:20:21,159 --> 00:20:18,370
means

531
00:20:23,529 --> 00:20:21,169
it says if the cause of death if she

532
00:20:26,169 --> 00:20:23,539
says was the person drowned but the the

533
00:20:27,789 --> 00:20:26,179
person died of lymphoma well then there

534
00:20:30,759 --> 00:20:27,799
wasn't a fit and if you do the maths

535
00:20:32,710 --> 00:20:30,769
here it comes up that 84% of the

536
00:20:34,570 --> 00:20:32,720
statement is correct so as you just said

537
00:20:36,669 --> 00:20:34,580
it's very hard to get it wrong that

538
00:20:39,370 --> 00:20:36,679
means if Allison said the person died of

539
00:20:42,850 --> 00:20:39,380
drowning eighty-four percent of anything

540
00:20:44,340 --> 00:20:42,860
will count as a yes good and now I bring

541
00:20:48,060 --> 00:20:44,350
you back to the first thing I said

542
00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:48,070
research medium variability Authority

543
00:20:52,990 --> 00:20:50,450
scientifically proven psychic abilities

544
00:20:54,850 --> 00:20:53,000
Allison on John plan writers said that

545
00:20:57,430 --> 00:20:54,860
they rake really hard and it's not easy

546
00:20:59,500 --> 00:20:57,440
well I can test that Allison I rate at

547
00:21:00,879 --> 00:20:59,510
84 percent of what you say can be

548
00:21:04,389 --> 00:21:00,889
clicked as correct

549
00:21:05,950 --> 00:21:04,399
so does matter what she says so they

550
00:21:07,659 --> 00:21:05,960
really want her to pass the test I

551
00:21:09,220 --> 00:21:07,669
wanted a pass there's nowhere and fail

552
00:21:10,330 --> 00:21:09,230
the test like that and if she only gets

553
00:21:12,190 --> 00:21:10,340
thirty four percent right in that I

554
00:21:14,950 --> 00:21:12,200
think she's doing very poorly let's

555
00:21:18,100 --> 00:21:14,960
ignore all that let's ignore that she

556
00:21:19,810 --> 00:21:18,110
she also says and now I'm gonna gonna

557
00:21:22,539 --> 00:21:19,820
put you on the spot here she also says

558
00:21:26,019 --> 00:21:22,549
that she's worked with the Texas Rangers

559
00:21:28,299 --> 00:21:26,029
now how can you dispute that well she

560
00:21:29,740 --> 00:21:28,309
does and the only way to dispute that is

561
00:21:32,590 --> 00:21:29,750
to ask the testing rangers themselves

562
00:21:34,060 --> 00:21:32,600
which I did oh you did yes I spoke to

563
00:21:36,940 --> 00:21:34,070
the public information officer Lisa

564
00:21:39,419 --> 00:21:36,950
block and they stated flatly that they'd

565
00:21:42,490 --> 00:21:39,429
never worked with her in subsequent

566
00:21:45,070 --> 00:21:42,500
askings Allison has said yes I have and

567
00:21:47,620 --> 00:21:45,080
I met me there and it was just like the

568
00:21:50,769 --> 00:21:47,630
TV show well this has to come back down

569
00:21:52,419 --> 00:21:50,779
to she said he said Allison claims that

570
00:21:54,789 --> 00:21:52,429
she's worked for the Texas Rangers

571
00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:54,799
it takes us Rangers themselves say no we

572
00:21:58,779 --> 00:21:56,690
never did you've got a dog decide to

573
00:22:00,639 --> 00:21:58,789
believe someone well I wonder who I

574
00:22:02,409 --> 00:22:00,649
would leave it

575
00:22:04,029 --> 00:22:02,419
especially when it comes up again when

576
00:22:06,310 --> 00:22:04,039
she said she worked for the Glendale

577
00:22:08,289 --> 00:22:06,320
police yeah and the public information

578
00:22:10,450 --> 00:22:08,299
officer there Michael penis as we also

579
00:22:13,889 --> 00:22:10,460
have him work with her as well

580
00:22:16,089 --> 00:22:13,899
she also said she was training to be a

581
00:22:18,580 --> 00:22:16,099
district attorney for the Maricopa

582
00:22:20,409 --> 00:22:18,590
County Attorney's Office she wasn't she

583
00:22:22,869 --> 00:22:20,419
was an intern working for the Maricopa

584
00:22:24,849 --> 00:22:22,879
County's office as a paper shuffler and

585
00:22:27,039 --> 00:22:24,859
that's where it all started because she

586
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:27,049
wasn't she wasn't studying more she was

587
00:22:30,940 --> 00:22:29,210
studying history I thought it here

588
00:22:32,469 --> 00:22:30,950
somewhere in my little ideas I can't

589
00:22:35,139 --> 00:22:32,479
remember exactly she was studying I

590
00:22:36,249 --> 00:22:35,149
think history and something else and I

591
00:22:37,060 --> 00:22:36,259
should know this off by heart but I

592
00:22:39,249 --> 00:22:37,070
don't know about

593
00:22:40,419 --> 00:22:39,259
she wasn't studying in law she was

594
00:22:44,409 --> 00:22:40,429
working in the office doing paperwork

595
00:22:46,570 --> 00:22:44,419
and handling photos of victims of crime

596
00:22:48,129 --> 00:22:46,580
that she suddenly got these flashes and

597
00:22:48,999 --> 00:22:48,139
how she suddenly knew where the bodies

598
00:22:51,009 --> 00:22:49,009
were and all that sort of stuff that's

599
00:22:53,289 --> 00:22:51,019
what the story goes it also amazes me

600
00:22:55,419 --> 00:22:53,299
that after her her world would tour of

601
00:22:57,759 --> 00:22:55,429
Australia it don't haven't heard a peep

602
00:22:59,440 --> 00:22:57,769
no no no I mean we're so the crimes

603
00:23:01,299 --> 00:22:59,450
she's just solved in the last week and

604
00:23:04,060 --> 00:23:01,309
I've AG exactly well that's exactly

605
00:23:06,129 --> 00:23:04,070
think the whole TV so is made up of the

606
00:23:07,509 --> 00:23:06,139
first one and in the second the first

607
00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:07,519
show which was the Texas Rangers in the

608
00:23:11,259 --> 00:23:08,690
second show which was the Glendale

609
00:23:13,149 --> 00:23:11,269
Police after that they're all loosely

610
00:23:15,789 --> 00:23:13,159
based on things that happened in her

611
00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:15,799
life well I'd say what things things she

612
00:23:19,149 --> 00:23:17,330
dreamt up things that they're not based

613
00:23:20,950 --> 00:23:19,159
on fact at all look there's a few things

614
00:23:22,269 --> 00:23:20,960
interesting about her and psychic digs

615
00:23:24,789 --> 00:23:22,279
that men should cover just quickly for

616
00:23:26,229 --> 00:23:24,799
you okay yep my opinion and this is

617
00:23:28,060 --> 00:23:26,239
again as I believe that these psychic

618
00:23:30,039 --> 00:23:28,070
actives her in the others deliberately

619
00:23:31,989 --> 00:23:30,049
target high-profile cases for a gain

620
00:23:33,549 --> 00:23:31,999
their own credibility and authority and

621
00:23:34,599 --> 00:23:33,559
particularly missing persons and victims

622
00:23:36,489 --> 00:23:34,609
of violent crime

623
00:23:38,459 --> 00:23:36,499
this sells really well to the public and

624
00:23:40,599 --> 00:23:38,469
sells really well to help I guess

625
00:23:42,219 --> 00:23:40,609
fascination yeah fascinated with death

626
00:23:44,109 --> 00:23:42,229
and dying cause it's not someone close

627
00:23:46,599 --> 00:23:44,119
to us so they make good money out of it

628
00:23:49,089 --> 00:23:46,609
and often the best heart strings to pull

629
00:23:51,219 --> 00:23:49,099
her children and you'll notice with the

630
00:23:54,009 --> 00:23:51,229
Beaumont children Daniel McComb Carmen

631
00:23:55,779 --> 00:23:54,019
Chan they've all done these cases on

632
00:23:58,839 --> 00:23:55,789
that other disgusting program sensing

633
00:24:00,969 --> 00:23:58,849
murder however no one's been found no

634
00:24:03,129 --> 00:24:00,979
one's been there's been no television

635
00:24:04,810 --> 00:24:03,139
follow-up saying Wow from Carmen Chan

636
00:24:06,009 --> 00:24:04,820
show from sensing murder we've never

637
00:24:07,899 --> 00:24:06,019
found from that evidence

638
00:24:09,639 --> 00:24:07,909
these shows are self evident that

639
00:24:11,529 --> 00:24:09,649
they're full of rubbish because there

640
00:24:12,130 --> 00:24:11,539
has been any father of any discovery no

641
00:24:14,860 --> 00:24:12,140
nothing

642
00:24:16,540 --> 00:24:14,870
proving themselves a bit strangely quiet

643
00:24:19,390 --> 00:24:16,550
of all those sensing murder shows

644
00:24:21,190 --> 00:24:19,400
there's been a you think they'd come

645
00:24:23,140 --> 00:24:21,200
back and say well it's been two years

646
00:24:24,850 --> 00:24:23,150
now since the first episode in G we

647
00:24:27,190 --> 00:24:24,860
haven't found a damn thing damn thing

648
00:24:29,530 --> 00:24:27,200
and the thought of the dreadful thing

649
00:24:31,380 --> 00:24:29,540
about this apart from the so-called info

650
00:24:34,660 --> 00:24:31,390
entertainment that this ends up being

651
00:24:36,910 --> 00:24:34,670
those that desperate and emotional are

652
00:24:38,170 --> 00:24:36,920
sitting there hanging by this terrible

653
00:24:40,060 --> 00:24:38,180
thread hoping that maybe there's

654
00:24:41,380 --> 00:24:40,070
something to have here people forget for

655
00:24:42,970 --> 00:24:41,390
a moment and when you're watching

656
00:24:44,770 --> 00:24:42,980
psychic detectives or seeing us in

657
00:24:46,210 --> 00:24:44,780
DuBois this is not the real thing about

658
00:24:48,550 --> 00:24:46,220
this that there are people out there

659
00:24:50,770 --> 00:24:48,560
suffering probably the most dreadful

660
00:24:52,570 --> 00:24:50,780
grief there is of their children or

661
00:24:54,730 --> 00:24:52,580
their wives or daughters missing or

662
00:24:56,650 --> 00:24:54,740
murdered by people unknown and then

663
00:24:58,480 --> 00:24:56,660
waiting to find out what happened and

664
00:25:01,750 --> 00:24:58,490
these people are left in this desperate

665
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:01,760
emotional state and this a vulnerable

666
00:25:05,620 --> 00:25:04,250
situation and these psychic detectives

667
00:25:08,500 --> 00:25:05,630
are claiming all sorts of things and

668
00:25:10,690 --> 00:25:08,510
exploiting them to the max which is just

669
00:25:12,610 --> 00:25:10,700
so grateful and they say we don't do it

670
00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:12,620
for a fee of course they don't they do

671
00:25:16,420 --> 00:25:14,690
it for profile and they get such a

672
00:25:18,220 --> 00:25:16,430
profile out of it you look at any of the

673
00:25:19,980 --> 00:25:18,230
women's magazines etc they've got those

674
00:25:22,510 --> 00:25:19,990
guys rustle whatever his name is etc

675
00:25:24,310 --> 00:25:22,520
making themselves famous and making

676
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:24,320
themselves wealthy out of these people's

677
00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:26,770
misery and pain which i think is just so

678
00:25:32,500 --> 00:25:30,530
aghast to anybody who's loved it you

679
00:25:34,810 --> 00:25:32,510
know the misery and pain of always sold

680
00:25:36,430 --> 00:25:34,820
well and they do yeah I do but I mean

681
00:25:37,810 --> 00:25:36,440
I've got nothing against a good horror

682
00:25:41,290 --> 00:25:37,820
movie because you can choose to go to

683
00:25:42,820 --> 00:25:41,300
that or or a scary movie or even a good

684
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:42,830
horror book or a criminal detective

685
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:44,450
fiction show you have a choice of

686
00:25:48,490 --> 00:25:46,490
dialing in or dialing out of that and we

687
00:25:50,410 --> 00:25:48,500
know it's fiction and horror and pain we

688
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:50,420
love but when you start capitalizing on

689
00:25:55,120 --> 00:25:53,210
this it just gets so so wrong but she

690
00:25:56,530 --> 00:25:55,130
has a god skeptics interesting along

691
00:25:58,120 --> 00:25:56,540
with what they say

692
00:25:59,980 --> 00:25:58,130
she says skeptics and a lot of these

693
00:26:02,170 --> 00:25:59,990
psyche to picture say the same things

694
00:26:04,810 --> 00:26:02,180
that if we don't believe in an afterlife

695
00:26:07,900 --> 00:26:04,820
and we don't believe in not life after

696
00:26:09,670 --> 00:26:07,910
death well I can't help you well not all

697
00:26:11,050 --> 00:26:09,680
skeptics believe that and a lot of them

698
00:26:13,540 --> 00:26:11,060
have their own private thoughts anyhow

699
00:26:15,700 --> 00:26:13,550
and to package all skeptics in the same

700
00:26:16,810 --> 00:26:15,710
thing is again by her very very

701
00:26:18,610 --> 00:26:16,820
convenient to put us all in the same

702
00:26:20,590 --> 00:26:18,620
spot oh it's very convenient and then

703
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:20,600
especially when she's on the chat shows

704
00:26:23,980 --> 00:26:21,890
and whatever she can write off the

705
00:26:25,370 --> 00:26:23,990
skeptics in one sentence one sentence

706
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:25,380
and then that undoes it all

707
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:27,210
but I'll throw back a few things that

708
00:26:32,060 --> 00:26:29,490
are firstly she loves stirring words of

709
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:32,070
the skeptics she used the words skeptics

710
00:26:38,900 --> 00:26:35,930
have vile repelling energies and at page

711
00:26:40,460 --> 00:26:38,910
116 of her book I do now I had a vile

712
00:26:42,290 --> 00:26:40,470
and repelling energy I don't have

713
00:26:45,380 --> 00:26:42,300
another shower she talks about another

714
00:26:49,070 --> 00:26:45,390
famous skeptic on a page 100 and

715
00:26:51,860 --> 00:26:49,080
she says so this is nice name-calling so

716
00:26:53,900 --> 00:26:51,870
that's good and she says out of page 112

717
00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:53,910
and I cannot believe proofreaders didn't

718
00:26:59,480 --> 00:26:56,610
fix this up she says remember it was

719
00:27:05,840 --> 00:26:59,490
skeptics who insisted that the world was

720
00:27:10,630 --> 00:27:05,850
flat oh yeah I think you've got that

721
00:27:17,420 --> 00:27:13,430
at least the skeptics questioned if the

722
00:27:19,730 --> 00:27:17,430
world is flat yes yes so on page 112 she

723
00:27:22,460 --> 00:27:19,740
screams at skeptics are such bad nasty

724
00:27:28,340 --> 00:27:22,470
people and remember and I'm just turning

725
00:27:32,150 --> 00:27:28,350
to the page here because that's from 112

726
00:27:33,950 --> 00:27:32,160
she says yes these of us and angry

727
00:27:36,230 --> 00:27:33,960
skeptics are the same people who

728
00:27:38,870 --> 00:27:36,240
insisted the world was flat angry

729
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:38,880
skeptic angry skeptic the SEBI was the

730
00:27:44,060 --> 00:27:41,330
world was flat well Alison that is wrong

731
00:27:44,660 --> 00:27:44,070
funny it would be funny if it wasn't so

732
00:27:46,490 --> 00:27:44,670
sad

733
00:27:48,230 --> 00:27:46,500
she also claimed that you know Randy

734
00:27:51,530 --> 00:27:48,240
with his million dollars didn't exist

735
00:27:53,300 --> 00:27:51,540
and she can't see that it exists etc etc

736
00:27:56,690 --> 00:27:53,310
and while I was doing my interviews I

737
00:27:58,400 --> 00:27:56,700
went actually to the 990 section of the

738
00:28:01,460 --> 00:27:58,410
IRS which is the Internal Revenue

739
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:01,470
Services paperwork for where they keep

740
00:28:06,050 --> 00:28:04,050
all nonprofit organizations paperwork

741
00:28:08,330 --> 00:28:06,060
and tax returns and I went to the tax

742
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:08,340
return I looked up James Randy's form

743
00:28:13,190 --> 00:28:10,530
and it has James Randi and his his

744
00:28:15,650 --> 00:28:13,200
yearly salary there and I think it's

745
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:15,660
section 30 or 60 for water there's the

746
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:17,250
million dollars sitting there yeah

747
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:19,170
anyone to climb out so she claimed it's

748
00:28:23,750 --> 00:28:20,850
what wasn't real accepted is her answers

749
00:28:25,610 --> 00:28:23,760
- are they all claim that they all say

750
00:28:28,790 --> 00:28:25,620
they all say that it's not real and yet

751
00:28:30,110 --> 00:28:28,800
a champion but they're legal in legal

752
00:28:31,850 --> 00:28:30,120
and she's also said there now he'll be

753
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:31,860
broke if it if you know I proved him

754
00:28:34,580 --> 00:28:33,450
wrong it cetera and I said well for the

755
00:28:35,630 --> 00:28:34,590
radio would it be as I said now he'll

756
00:28:37,670 --> 00:28:35,640
still get his pay because there's

757
00:28:38,830 --> 00:28:37,680
paycheck there for every year and plus

758
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:38,840
you'll even be more

759
00:28:44,419 --> 00:28:41,850
yeah she's been living this story since

760
00:28:46,669 --> 00:28:44,429
she was six years old and she's exposed

761
00:28:48,110 --> 00:28:46,679
her family to it and she has Fame and

762
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:48,120
television shows she is married to this

763
00:28:52,730 --> 00:28:50,730
story completely so whatever we come up

764
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:52,740
as skeptics here we're not going to

765
00:28:56,539 --> 00:28:54,330
actually ever convince her or the

766
00:28:58,340 --> 00:28:56,549
hard-core but we will be able to maybe

767
00:28:59,990 --> 00:28:58,350
attack and crumble some of her major

768
00:29:01,639 --> 00:29:00,000
claims to the rest of the thinking

769
00:29:03,380 --> 00:29:01,649
public she's not a criminal profiler

770
00:29:05,750 --> 00:29:03,390
she's not asking such medium she has not

771
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:05,760
solved any cases nor work with for law

772
00:29:09,710 --> 00:29:08,130
enforcement as most are convicted she's

773
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:09,720
based it on tithing the most vulnerable

774
00:29:14,930 --> 00:29:11,490
people and she has no answers for the

775
00:29:17,389 --> 00:29:14,940
skeptics a few questions for you Richard

776
00:29:18,889 --> 00:29:17,399
oh that's fantastic well mark thanks for

777
00:29:20,419 --> 00:29:18,899
coming into the tank today it's been

778
00:29:22,279 --> 00:29:20,429
great to talk with you I hope our

779
00:29:24,710 --> 00:29:22,289
listeners got a lot of interesting

780
00:29:26,029 --> 00:29:24,720
benefit out of one now as a absolute

781
00:29:27,379 --> 00:29:26,039
pleasure Richard and thank you for

782
00:29:29,090 --> 00:29:27,389
having me and I wish you all the best

783
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:29,100
for the tank and all the people

784
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:29,450
listening

785
00:29:43,870 --> 00:29:40,450
[Music]

786
00:29:46,690 --> 00:29:43,880
hi this is dr. Pamela gay from astronomy

787
00:29:48,610 --> 00:29:46,700
cast each week Fraser Cain and I take

788
00:29:50,860 --> 00:29:48,620
our listeners on a fact-based journey

789
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:50,870
through the cosmos with our weekly

790
00:29:56,350 --> 00:29:53,570
podcast we explain not just what we know

791
00:29:59,230 --> 00:29:56,360
but how we know what we know about this

792
00:30:01,690 --> 00:29:59,240
universe that we share check us out at

793
00:30:04,060 --> 00:30:01,700
astronomy cast calm and look for us in

794
00:30:25,900 --> 00:30:04,070
itunes google play and wherever you

795
00:30:28,900 --> 00:30:25,910
download podcasts see online it's the

796
00:30:31,470 --> 00:30:28,910
7th of October 2018 and here at the

797
00:30:35,669 --> 00:30:31,480
darling harbor exhibition center in

798
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:35,679
Sydney where once again it's the

799
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:38,570
mind-body-spirit festival that's

800
00:30:42,850 --> 00:30:40,250
interesting I'm just sitting outside the

801
00:30:44,909 --> 00:30:42,860
entrance now waiting for Lara venom from

802
00:30:47,140 --> 00:30:44,919
the Australian skeptics to accompany me

803
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:47,150
you know in the past this has been

804
00:30:52,030 --> 00:30:49,730
called the festival of mind/body/spirit

805
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:52,040
now it's mind-body-spirit festival I'm

806
00:30:55,470 --> 00:30:54,010
sure that makes a difference

807
00:30:58,230 --> 00:30:55,480
and I think I've might have mentioned

808
00:31:00,169 --> 00:30:58,240
before that in years past of course you

809
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:00,179
had to pay beginning to this and

810
00:31:06,710 --> 00:31:03,490
recently it's free from the marketing

811
00:31:08,669 --> 00:31:06,720
point of view it's it makes good sense

812
00:31:12,630 --> 00:31:08,679
because they want to get people in the

813
00:31:16,919 --> 00:31:12,640
door to buy whatever products or

814
00:31:19,860 --> 00:31:16,929
services are on offer lots of people

815
00:31:22,860 --> 00:31:19,870
milling in at the moment it's wet old

816
00:31:27,390 --> 00:31:22,870
weekend here in Sydney and soon are we

817
00:31:31,020 --> 00:31:27,400
diving in to mind/body wat once again

818
00:31:32,700 --> 00:31:31,030
and as ever I recommend it's worth for

819
00:31:40,450 --> 00:31:32,710
any skeptic at least once to go to a

820
00:31:46,550 --> 00:31:43,130
is wandering through mine buddy wallet

821
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:46,560
now what do we got here sort of angel

822
00:31:52,070 --> 00:31:48,930
readings looks nice I Club haven't

823
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:52,080
really with an angel energetics whatever

824
00:31:57,530 --> 00:31:55,410
livers healing body and mind it says all

825
00:32:00,710 --> 00:31:57,540
sorts of wonderful things advanced set

826
00:32:02,540 --> 00:32:00,720
stem cell nutrition might be worth

827
00:32:06,810 --> 00:32:02,550
getting a brochure for our friend dr.

828
00:32:10,590 --> 00:32:06,820
Brad Makai rare-earth crystals

829
00:32:12,269 --> 00:32:10,600
ah it's a wonderland folks one of the

830
00:32:15,269 --> 00:32:12,279
lessons I've learned and it's taken me

831
00:32:17,909 --> 00:32:15,279
years and years and years and really

832
00:32:19,919 --> 00:32:17,919
only this year it's hit home that you

833
00:32:22,409 --> 00:32:19,929
have to pick your battles so I'm walking

834
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:22,419
down these corridors now and all sorts

835
00:32:27,060 --> 00:32:25,450
of whoo right left and center and you do

836
00:32:28,830 --> 00:32:27,070
have to pick your battles he can't just

837
00:32:32,879 --> 00:32:28,840
turn up and start arguing with every

838
00:32:38,730 --> 00:32:32,889
store holder I just passed one offering

839
00:32:40,379 --> 00:32:38,740
me a tumeric detox and I said marker

840
00:32:42,690 --> 00:32:40,389
liver for that and they started to

841
00:32:46,049 --> 00:32:42,700
engage with me I thought now what's his

842
00:32:48,300 --> 00:32:46,059
skin detox so you know you can't as much

843
00:32:50,910 --> 00:32:48,310
as I'd love it

844
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:50,920
part of me would love it it's really it

845
00:32:55,050 --> 00:32:52,450
doesn't get you very far and it's far

846
00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:55,060
better just to gather information maybe

847
00:32:58,370 --> 00:32:56,890
have a polite conversation say how does

848
00:33:01,260 --> 00:32:58,380
this work and what do you do

849
00:33:03,810 --> 00:33:01,270
because remonstrating and arguing with

850
00:33:05,970 --> 00:33:03,820
them especially a place like this will

851
00:33:07,650 --> 00:33:05,980
get you precisely nowhere you may even

852
00:33:09,710 --> 00:33:07,660
get you kicked out which has happened

853
00:33:13,490 --> 00:33:09,720
before

854
00:33:18,169 --> 00:33:13,500
what's this one metaphysical mysteries

855
00:33:20,060 --> 00:33:18,179
lots of Crystal pendants and we turn the

856
00:33:23,330 --> 00:33:20,070
corner and my goodness me this is a

857
00:33:28,580 --> 00:33:23,340
member ending maze it goes on and on and

858
00:33:32,180 --> 00:33:28,590
on crystal connections angel guide art

859
00:33:34,409 --> 00:33:32,190
with reading free prayer Jesus is the

860
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:34,419
answer well

861
00:33:39,850 --> 00:33:45,220
sometimes I must forwards

862
00:33:50,500 --> 00:33:48,029
and a blast from the past a pyramid

863
00:33:52,810 --> 00:33:50,510
somebody is sitting under a pyramid with

864
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:52,820
a crystal on the top and directly behind

865
00:33:58,750 --> 00:33:55,850
them so behind my back is the organ

866
00:34:02,350 --> 00:33:58,760
effects people a couple years ago called

867
00:34:06,340 --> 00:34:02,360
security on me forget me chased out no

868
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:06,350
they're still here and I won't engage

869
00:34:11,559 --> 00:34:09,010
with them

870
00:34:14,550 --> 00:34:11,569
my name you to know that there's also

871
00:34:19,590 --> 00:34:14,560
lady D psychic parties

872
00:34:23,460 --> 00:34:19,600
psychic party one bottles the mind I'm

873
00:34:25,890 --> 00:34:23,470
also reminded that when I come here how

874
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:25,900
many of these stalls offer health advice

875
00:34:34,110 --> 00:34:31,570
and healing and pseudo medical products

876
00:34:36,899 --> 00:34:34,120
this thing will help this this thing the

877
00:34:39,990 --> 00:34:36,909
cure there's this thing largely based on

878
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:40,000
testimonials of course and for years

879
00:34:43,620 --> 00:34:41,530
I've wondered why this place simply

880
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:43,630
isn't rated by the health department

881
00:34:48,630 --> 00:34:45,610
because stall after stall after stall

882
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:48,640
are here and making medical claims no

883
00:34:53,850 --> 00:34:52,090
matter how they use weasel words to

884
00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:53,860
pretend they're not

885
00:35:00,110 --> 00:34:56,290
at the end of the day these people are

886
00:35:05,150 --> 00:35:01,640
and we're passing the oldie but the

887
00:35:08,270 --> 00:35:05,160
goodies is I kick reading room which is

888
00:35:10,030 --> 00:35:08,280
a big open area and I'll try to give you

889
00:35:12,050 --> 00:35:10,040
a Oh teddy

890
00:35:15,490 --> 00:35:12,060
that's handy there's actually a wall

891
00:35:20,830 --> 00:35:15,500
here of the psychics who are in the room

892
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:24,820
yeah okay so I guess in the vicinity of

893
00:35:31,720 --> 00:35:27,890
50 people here sites are called psychics

894
00:35:35,380 --> 00:35:31,730
and it's $50 for 25 minutes and there's

895
00:35:38,430 --> 00:35:35,390
a queue and oh we're right opposite the

896
00:35:41,130 --> 00:35:38,440
Church of Scientology there we go

897
00:35:42,900 --> 00:35:41,140
and all the young younger people here

898
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:42,910
with their Scientology t-shirts on doing

899
00:35:51,690 --> 00:35:47,770
the personality test before they get out

900
00:35:56,550 --> 00:35:53,850
well year after year after year the

901
00:35:57,450 --> 00:35:56,560
Scientologists are here and I know the

902
00:36:00,390 --> 00:35:57,460
battle goes on

903
00:36:02,700 --> 00:36:00,400
I guess it's occurred to me now that

904
00:36:04,350 --> 00:36:02,710
despite everything that we throw at them

905
00:36:06,900 --> 00:36:04,360
and all the other people here - they're

906
00:36:09,450 --> 00:36:06,910
still here now we have our victories

907
00:36:11,340 --> 00:36:09,460
along the way and we shouldn't stop but

908
00:36:17,250 --> 00:36:11,350
the general New Age movement is still

909
00:36:18,870 --> 00:36:17,260
strong and it's like the the Hydra is

910
00:36:21,720 --> 00:36:18,880
that the name of the serpent with all

911
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:21,730
the heads the Hydra you cut one head off

912
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:23,170
in seven grow or something like that

913
00:36:27,540 --> 00:36:25,930
Hydra yeah it's like the creature from

914
00:36:30,870 --> 00:36:27,550
mythology where he cut off one head and

915
00:36:37,859 --> 00:36:35,130
but don't be I'm not sending a message

916
00:36:40,140 --> 00:36:37,869
here to be downhearted we do what we do

917
00:36:42,690 --> 00:36:40,150
and we can reach people who may be on

918
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:42,700
the fence but

919
00:36:47,730 --> 00:36:44,890
it's an odd line you know some of us

920
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:47,740
have chosen in our life maybe it passed

921
00:36:52,450 --> 00:36:49,930
a life therapist could tell me more

922
00:36:57,760 --> 00:36:55,660
back to my earlier point

923
00:37:00,220 --> 00:36:57,770
and yes don't be discouraged because you

924
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:00,230
learned so much here and you certainly

925
00:37:04,910 --> 00:37:03,450
be business of

926
00:37:06,140 --> 00:37:04,920
you certainly can become a better

927
00:37:07,850 --> 00:37:06,150
skeptic when you know what you're

928
00:37:11,210 --> 00:37:07,860
talking about and you can understand why

929
00:37:13,790 --> 00:37:11,220
people are saying what they do one of

930
00:37:15,380 --> 00:37:13,800
the biggest enemies our movement has the

931
00:37:18,170 --> 00:37:15,390
so-called skeptics is just say I don't

932
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:18,180
believe anything you're stupid how can

933
00:37:21,950 --> 00:37:19,650
you believe this rubbish well of course

934
00:37:24,530 --> 00:37:21,960
people can believe anything and then

935
00:37:27,820 --> 00:37:24,540
normally have at least to themselves

936
00:37:31,220 --> 00:37:27,830
good reasons for believing things

937
00:37:35,690 --> 00:37:31,230
even though that reason might be faulty

938
00:37:37,460 --> 00:37:35,700
so treating treating people who buy into

939
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:37,470
this thing this fools is so

940
00:37:42,230 --> 00:37:40,890
counterproductive and of course we need

941
00:37:44,690 --> 00:37:42,240
the people who peddle it are true

942
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:44,700
believers but amongst them are the

943
00:37:50,230 --> 00:37:48,290
sharks that knowing con men and women

944
00:37:52,250 --> 00:37:50,240
then sometimes it's hard to tell them

945
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:52,260
apart too

946
00:37:55,970 --> 00:37:53,970
it's interesting to note that one of the

947
00:37:57,859 --> 00:37:55,980
psychics I'm analyzing at the moment

948
00:37:59,000 --> 00:37:57,869
with her in respect to the reading she

949
00:38:02,120 --> 00:37:59,010
does because there's lots of those on

950
00:38:04,010 --> 00:38:02,130
the YouTube and TV appearances whatever

951
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:04,020
there's a big presence here this year

952
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:07,650
she's got a three boots some on

953
00:38:14,650 --> 00:38:11,330
completely opposite side to the others

954
00:38:17,020 --> 00:38:14,660
with staff so it gives you an idea that

955
00:38:18,550 --> 00:38:17,030
too many of these people regardless of

956
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:18,560
their motivations or what they believe

957
00:38:23,590 --> 00:38:20,810
in their heart of hearts it's also their

958
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:23,600
livelihood it's a business which is

959
00:38:26,740 --> 00:38:25,490
another reason that you can't just come

960
00:38:28,060 --> 00:38:26,750
into these places and start

961
00:38:28,780 --> 00:38:28,070
remonstrating with them and telling them

962
00:38:30,670 --> 00:38:28,790
they're wrong

963
00:38:33,240 --> 00:38:30,680
apart from the fact that they don't

964
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:33,250
think you're a complete nut you're also

965
00:38:36,670 --> 00:38:35,330
encroaching on their livelihood in their

966
00:38:40,420 --> 00:38:36,680
business but something that we should

967
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:40,430
always keep in mind linden we've escaped

968
00:38:43,510 --> 00:38:42,050
mind/body wallet we've come next door to

969
00:38:45,940 --> 00:38:43,520
the home show now you spent quite a long

970
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:45,950
time with the Church of Scientology yeah

971
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:48,410
I did indeed I mean not you I mean let

972
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:49,970
me rephrase that here at the festival

973
00:38:55,090 --> 00:38:52,010
you sat down and had a personality test

974
00:38:56,230 --> 00:38:55,100
I did yeah it was a stress test and I'm

975
00:38:59,050 --> 00:38:56,240
very stressed do you have the

976
00:39:00,130 --> 00:38:59,060
personality well no that fell flat when

977
00:39:02,470 --> 00:39:00,140
I hit when they asked me about my

978
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:02,480
personality and you were telling the

979
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:04,370
young lady who you were talking to about

980
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:06,770
the volcano I think um sir she was

981
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:08,810
trying to sell me the Dianetics Court

982
00:39:14,310 --> 00:39:11,090
yeah and on the cover in you know very

983
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:14,320
bright colors and certainly not

984
00:39:20,710 --> 00:39:17,690
evocative of stress was a giant volcano

985
00:39:23,590 --> 00:39:20,720
of course as that I believe that's one

986
00:39:26,620 --> 00:39:23,600
of the central premises of the thing and

987
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:26,630
so I asked her what the the volcano is

988
00:39:31,240 --> 00:39:28,010
for and how has that got to do with

989
00:39:32,930 --> 00:39:31,250
relieving stress and she didn't really

990
00:39:36,020 --> 00:39:32,940
know

991
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:36,030
it's fascinating she will I mean she

992
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:37,530
leave that space stay with them long

993
00:39:42,740 --> 00:39:39,330
enough to find out or she'll leave and

994
00:39:44,570 --> 00:39:42,750
then discover yeah yeah she does some

995
00:39:46,310 --> 00:39:44,580
research of her own say by watching not

996
00:40:05,300 --> 00:39:46,320
a no South pocket of a thing

997
00:40:06,890 --> 00:40:05,310
words of wisdom Linden thank you today

998
00:40:08,450 --> 00:40:06,900
this is dr. Karl Kyle Chris let's keep

999
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:08,460
proud to be skeptic and you can find out

1000
00:40:17,180 --> 00:40:10,770
more about me at dr. Kyle calm and get

1001
00:40:17,190 --> 00:40:23,000
[Music]

1002
00:40:30,780 --> 00:40:27,710
here's Maynard spooky action at a

1003
00:40:35,140 --> 00:40:33,099
welcome to skeptics in the pub this is a

1004
00:40:37,090 --> 00:40:35,150
bit of a warm-up act for the big skeptic

1005
00:40:39,790 --> 00:40:37,100
on that's going to be breaking over this

1006
00:40:42,010 --> 00:40:39,800
city Sydney is currently sleeping

1007
00:40:44,950 --> 00:40:42,020
skeptically they don't know what way up

1008
00:40:46,660 --> 00:40:44,960
reason is but they will know when Skip

1009
00:40:47,770 --> 00:40:46,670
deconned hits later in about a week or

1010
00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:47,780
toast time and I'm gonna run around

1011
00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:50,330
everything I'm all looking out a vista

1012
00:40:55,240 --> 00:40:53,330
of wet Sydney I can see people in there

1013
00:40:57,430 --> 00:40:55,250
soggy underwear waiting at the bus stop

1014
00:41:00,099 --> 00:40:57,440
thinking it was summer but here at

1015
00:41:02,140 --> 00:41:00,109
skeptics in the pub tonight music is on

1016
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:02,150
the agenda and we haven't thought of a

1017
00:41:05,950 --> 00:41:03,890
sceptical question to ask them yet but I

1018
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:05,960
have a few skeptical questions to ask

1019
00:41:10,599 --> 00:41:08,330
you about music right now Right Said

1020
00:41:13,240 --> 00:41:10,609
Fred right what is the answer

1021
00:41:15,180 --> 00:41:13,250
Right Said Fred question mark is the

1022
00:41:17,770 --> 00:41:15,190
question we'll be asking people tonight

1023
00:41:19,060 --> 00:41:17,780
what is it what what is the point what

1024
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:19,070
is the very question of Right Said Fred

1025
00:41:22,270 --> 00:41:20,690
that is one of the questions I'll be

1026
00:41:24,490 --> 00:41:22,280
asking people will be talking about

1027
00:41:26,349 --> 00:41:24,500
music and of course as well as that the

1028
00:41:29,109 --> 00:41:26,359
work of Sciuto echo cannot be ignored

1029
00:41:31,780 --> 00:41:29,119
all Village People I'm you're gonna see

1030
00:41:34,240 --> 00:41:31,790
the cut of my musical jib tonight if

1031
00:41:36,609 --> 00:41:34,250
they'll let me so we will be asking

1032
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:36,619
people tonight is there a formula to

1033
00:41:40,870 --> 00:41:39,170
music is there a science to that formula

1034
00:41:43,599 --> 00:41:40,880
can you actually apply a formula to

1035
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:43,609
music and have it come out right well I

1036
00:41:48,580 --> 00:41:46,130
would say yes and I would use as Exhibit

1037
00:41:50,859 --> 00:41:48,590
A anything by the Pet Shop Boys there

1038
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:50,869
you go now that you mock me Saunders

1039
00:41:56,590 --> 00:41:55,010
yeah look I I can tell you right now

1040
00:41:58,300 --> 00:41:56,600
that there is a formula to creating a

1041
00:42:00,670 --> 00:41:58,310
pop song and I use as an example for

1042
00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:00,680
this the Pet Shop Boys that's a really

1043
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:02,450
good example really good example of

1044
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:07,010
stuff also an example might be dancing

1045
00:42:11,830 --> 00:42:08,090
queen by ABBA

1046
00:42:13,750 --> 00:42:11,840
there's no there's no loan there's no

1047
00:42:15,430 --> 00:42:13,760
aphrodisiac like loneliness by the

1048
00:42:17,890 --> 00:42:15,440
Whitlam because both their songs start

1049
00:42:19,570 --> 00:42:17,900
with the chorus both the song start with

1050
00:42:21,670 --> 00:42:19,580
the chorus they don't have any intro

1051
00:42:23,980 --> 00:42:21,680
anything like that that is a successful

1052
00:42:25,330 --> 00:42:23,990
pattern for that sort of thing well what

1053
00:42:27,010 --> 00:42:25,340
do what do you think do you think the

1054
00:42:29,609 --> 00:42:27,020
ism wondering if you've tested that

1055
00:42:32,130 --> 00:42:29,619
hypothesis do all songs that stop

1056
00:42:35,910 --> 00:42:32,140
are they always on they are always they

1057
00:42:38,430 --> 00:42:35,920
aren't always successful but huge well

1058
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:38,440
it but it is it is a gambit that

1059
00:42:42,089 --> 00:42:40,450
sometimes works but you say so it could

1060
00:42:44,039 --> 00:42:42,099
be in the formula just not as big a

1061
00:42:45,779 --> 00:42:44,049
number as the other ones that increases

1062
00:42:48,210 --> 00:42:45,789
the chances it could it could increase

1063
00:42:51,230 --> 00:42:48,220
the chance of humming come on no it's no

1064
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:51,240
no no effort is that like loneliness and

1065
00:42:57,329 --> 00:42:54,970
dancing queen are crackers racks I don't

1066
00:42:59,190 --> 00:42:57,339
know one of those the other one yeah

1067
00:43:01,049 --> 00:42:59,200
I'm thinking maybe blockbusters by the

1068
00:43:02,930 --> 00:43:01,059
sweetie actually starts with maybe that

1069
00:43:05,309 --> 00:43:02,940
starts with the chorus as well that ah

1070
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:05,319
it's basically yeah that's that's a bit

1071
00:43:08,609 --> 00:43:06,970
of a callback that's no thing that is

1072
00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:08,619
example now have you got any thoughts on

1073
00:43:16,259 --> 00:43:12,130
this one well you see are you defining

1074
00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:16,269
their status in history by how good they

1075
00:43:19,890 --> 00:43:18,130
are or whether they're an earworm ah

1076
00:43:24,329 --> 00:43:19,900
well because we were just discussing

1077
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:24,339
Toto Africa which I kind of liked until

1078
00:43:27,329 --> 00:43:25,930
recently when I just thought I'll come

1079
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:27,339
on do we have look they must have

1080
00:43:30,569 --> 00:43:29,410
another song well they probably do I

1081
00:43:34,289 --> 00:43:30,579
mean we're gonna find out hopefully in

1082
00:43:36,450 --> 00:43:34,299
January but is that objectively a good

1083
00:43:38,670 --> 00:43:36,460
song or is it just very very memorable

1084
00:43:40,529 --> 00:43:38,680
that's the thing I think that goes with

1085
00:43:45,859 --> 00:43:40,539
a lot of pop is it's just very very

1086
00:43:50,339 --> 00:43:47,849
immediately getting into Right Said Fred

1087
00:43:52,559 --> 00:43:50,349
territory there another good example of

1088
00:43:54,299 --> 00:43:52,569
the greatest British pop band of all

1089
00:43:56,249 --> 00:43:54,309
time Right Said Fred without a doubt and

1090
00:43:57,779 --> 00:43:56,259
so there so what's an example of a song

1091
00:43:59,220 --> 00:43:57,789
you think might be a formula a quite

1092
00:44:01,410 --> 00:43:59,230
maybe I don't want to lock the show good

1093
00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:01,420
music go yeah I don't know but I was

1094
00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:03,130
gonna say like I have heard that there's

1095
00:44:08,519 --> 00:44:06,249
certainly would like series of notes or

1096
00:44:10,170 --> 00:44:08,529
chords put together which apparently the

1097
00:44:16,410 --> 00:44:10,180
human brain likes more than other ones

1098
00:44:17,999 --> 00:44:16,420
oh the Batman theme you okay okay so

1099
00:44:19,380 --> 00:44:18,009
maybe if you include something like that

1100
00:44:21,049 --> 00:44:19,390
stick the chorus at the front like you

1101
00:44:24,059 --> 00:44:21,059
said

1102
00:44:25,589 --> 00:44:24,069
I'll go get working I bet they're so

1103
00:44:27,749 --> 00:44:25,599
actually is there a song that you think

1104
00:44:31,349 --> 00:44:27,759
is an example of that I think most of

1105
00:44:33,839 --> 00:44:31,359
Kylie generally Tokido boredom and stuff

1106
00:44:35,939 --> 00:44:33,849
exactly right story about that cuz Carly

1107
00:44:39,479 --> 00:44:35,949
turned up for the stock Aitken and

1108
00:44:42,150 --> 00:44:39,489
Waterman and she has said in interviews

1109
00:44:43,949 --> 00:44:42,160
and to me it's quite clear that they had

1110
00:44:46,019 --> 00:44:43,959
forgotten that she was coming and they

1111
00:44:47,579 --> 00:44:46,029
said just wait in reception for 15

1112
00:44:49,109 --> 00:44:47,589
minutes and she's pretty sure that

1113
00:44:50,609 --> 00:44:49,119
during that 15 minutes they went away

1114
00:44:53,609 --> 00:44:50,619
and either found in their bottom drawer

1115
00:44:55,829 --> 00:44:53,619
I should be so lucky all wrote it in 15

1116
00:44:56,939 --> 00:44:55,839
minutes and then record it and that and

1117
00:44:59,219 --> 00:44:56,949
when you listen to I should be so lucky

1118
00:45:01,410 --> 00:44:59,229
she might have a point it's completely

1119
00:45:03,539 --> 00:45:01,420
unsurprising mmm yeah I mean come on

1120
00:45:05,489 --> 00:45:03,549
they were pretty great yeah I mean you

1121
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:05,499
know anything those guys own actual

1122
00:45:10,140 --> 00:45:08,410
trains now they have so much money they

1123
00:45:17,099 --> 00:45:10,150
own trains they buy trains they had

1124
00:45:24,989 --> 00:45:17,109
their own rolling stop yeah well done

1125
00:45:29,699 --> 00:45:24,999
there we'll talk about this later but

1126
00:45:31,049 --> 00:45:29,709
thank you for your input here's someone

1127
00:45:32,459 --> 00:45:31,059
who knows their music hello sir how are

1128
00:45:33,809 --> 00:45:32,469
you all right yeah

1129
00:45:35,759 --> 00:45:33,819
well pretty good we've been talking

1130
00:45:37,410 --> 00:45:35,769
about the formulaic nature of music and

1131
00:45:38,219 --> 00:45:37,420
is there a formula to music in that sort

1132
00:45:39,870 --> 00:45:38,229
of thing people have strong opinions

1133
00:45:41,429 --> 00:45:39,880
people don't have the supermarket and

1134
00:45:43,259 --> 00:45:41,439
vomiting with what they hear over coming

1135
00:45:45,449 --> 00:45:43,269
over the music how do you feel about

1136
00:45:46,979 --> 00:45:45,459
there being a formula a scientific

1137
00:45:49,519 --> 00:45:46,989
approach to writing songs and music

1138
00:45:53,910 --> 00:45:49,529
certain bands do follow a very strict

1139
00:45:56,759 --> 00:45:53,920
very formulaic very predictable pattern

1140
00:45:59,910 --> 00:45:56,769
like I'm sure Laura might have mentioned

1141
00:46:02,130 --> 00:45:59,920
her favorite band of old Hagen a very

1142
00:46:04,410 --> 00:46:02,140
very formulaic should check them out

1143
00:46:08,009 --> 00:46:04,420
they're pretty great I'm not very

1144
00:46:11,519 --> 00:46:08,019
sarcastic either yeah I listen to a lot

1145
00:46:13,259 --> 00:46:11,529
of atonal music where it sort of just

1146
00:46:14,789 --> 00:46:13,269
sounds like random notes but then you go

1147
00:46:16,919 --> 00:46:14,799
and say it live and it's exactly the

1148
00:46:19,229 --> 00:46:16,929
same is the album and it's amazing so

1149
00:46:20,699 --> 00:46:19,239
they intended it absolutely so what's an

1150
00:46:22,979 --> 00:46:20,709
example of a song we might know that you

1151
00:46:25,140 --> 00:46:22,989
think fits a formulaic pattern the yeah

1152
00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:25,150
all right there's the formula look at it

1153
00:46:29,219 --> 00:46:27,729
go oh this there's some good Meshuga

1154
00:46:31,930 --> 00:46:29,229
numbers I'm sure everyone's heard of oh

1155
00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:31,940
not me but I'll go with it with

1156
00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:35,690
we got like some more bleed yeah well

1157
00:46:42,750 --> 00:46:38,210
all of those ones and some pretty good

1158
00:46:45,100 --> 00:46:42,760
stuff there okay did you think if they

1159
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:45,110
diverge from the formula too much the

1160
00:46:49,690 --> 00:46:48,410
audience gets unhappy yeah obviously the

1161
00:46:52,270 --> 00:46:49,700
last thing an audience wants us to be

1162
00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:52,280
challenged yeah I mean it usually counts

1163
00:46:56,560 --> 00:46:54,290
as selling out if if a bands changes in

1164
00:46:58,900 --> 00:46:56,570
any way whatsoever it's a real risk

1165
00:47:01,120 --> 00:46:58,910
isn't it yeah absolutely yeah and I've

1166
00:47:02,260 --> 00:47:01,130
been in bands where you get popular and

1167
00:47:03,730 --> 00:47:02,270
you get to a certain point where you've

1168
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:03,740
got a break with all your fans and

1169
00:47:07,570 --> 00:47:05,210
actually move to the next level and

1170
00:47:08,740 --> 00:47:07,580
that's where most bands fault up well

1171
00:47:10,240 --> 00:47:08,750
why would you break with your fans

1172
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:10,250
intentionally oh well because you've got

1173
00:47:14,350 --> 00:47:12,530
to get to a wider audience so to get to

1174
00:47:16,660 --> 00:47:14,360
a wider audience you sometimes have to

1175
00:47:19,240 --> 00:47:16,670
compromise or the actual act of becoming

1176
00:47:20,380 --> 00:47:19,250
popular the fans leave you because they

1177
00:47:21,550 --> 00:47:20,390
think you've sold out even when you're

1178
00:47:24,730 --> 00:47:21,560
doing exactly the same thing you've just

1179
00:47:26,740 --> 00:47:24,740
got popular but that is selling out if

1180
00:47:29,380 --> 00:47:26,750
you're doing the same thing and more

1181
00:47:30,940 --> 00:47:29,390
people like what you're doing that's not

1182
00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:30,950
actually selling out it's just an

1183
00:47:35,740 --> 00:47:33,290
evolution why have you broken with your

1184
00:47:37,180 --> 00:47:35,750
fans then well because the fans well cuz

1185
00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:37,190
they were though will they see you

1186
00:47:39,430 --> 00:47:38,450
getting more popular in a tell if they

1187
00:47:40,630 --> 00:47:39,440
don't want to be with something that's

1188
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:40,640
popular they want to be with something

1189
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:42,890
that's cold right so you only ever

1190
00:47:46,030 --> 00:47:44,450
played hipster music yeah apparently

1191
00:47:47,620 --> 00:47:46,040
apparently and then as soon as it

1192
00:47:48,910 --> 00:47:47,630
started getting popular they were not I

1193
00:47:49,990 --> 00:47:48,920
will add none of this even though it's

1194
00:47:51,580 --> 00:47:50,000
exactly the same as what they were doing

1195
00:47:55,420 --> 00:47:51,590
last week it's changed

1196
00:47:56,830 --> 00:47:55,430
you've sold out man there's a formula

1197
00:47:58,840 --> 00:47:56,840
involved I'll let you get back to your

1198
00:48:00,370 --> 00:47:58,850
chicken burger there and and thank you I

1199
00:48:01,690 --> 00:48:00,380
believe we can see you in the pop charts

1200
00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:01,700
fairly shortly we can hear your stuff

1201
00:48:06,820 --> 00:48:03,890
down the supermarket absolutely it's

1202
00:48:08,530 --> 00:48:06,830
about to happen I come with a to Mendham

1203
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:08,540
at the bar where else would you be with

1204
00:48:14,710 --> 00:48:10,970
two men but I have been asking me about

1205
00:48:16,300 --> 00:48:14,720
a formula to music and you and you

1206
00:48:18,070 --> 00:48:16,310
you've come up with an effect in music

1207
00:48:19,780 --> 00:48:18,080
you think works and it is the answer I

1208
00:48:21,940 --> 00:48:19,790
think it's an absolute a surety that

1209
00:48:24,010 --> 00:48:21,950
when you have phasing which is also

1210
00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:24,020
called flanking by some people right yes

1211
00:48:27,580 --> 00:48:25,850
that it's which is basically it's

1212
00:48:29,500 --> 00:48:27,590
actually built into most deject decks

1213
00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:29,510
now you can actually yeah once the one

1214
00:48:32,230 --> 00:48:31,010
of time was done by the producer or

1215
00:48:34,300 --> 00:48:32,240
something with all sort of tricky little

1216
00:48:36,100 --> 00:48:34,310
diodes and triodes and that sort of

1217
00:48:37,060 --> 00:48:36,110
stuff and an example of a song you would

1218
00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:37,070
definitely would have heard of him would

1219
00:48:39,550 --> 00:48:38,570
have been the real thing by Russell

1220
00:48:41,650 --> 00:48:39,560
Morris but you've got a few other

1221
00:48:44,050 --> 00:48:41,660
examples well now my mama will think yes

1222
00:48:45,070 --> 00:48:44,060
yes each of your pack was famous well he

1223
00:48:45,350 --> 00:48:45,080
took it back this sort of it the first

1224
00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:45,360
time

1225
00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:46,770
and some people to say that's the first

1226
00:48:51,170 --> 00:48:49,770
real one this actually if there was a

1227
00:48:54,350 --> 00:48:51,180
period of Australian music and their

1228
00:48:56,660 --> 00:48:54,360
late sixties early seventies when almost

1229
00:48:58,220 --> 00:48:56,670
every record was fast I heard an

1230
00:49:00,260 --> 00:48:58,230
Australian version of nights in white

1231
00:49:03,050 --> 00:49:00,270
satin' but the whole thing is face face

1232
00:49:06,080 --> 00:49:03,060
I know I know and it's it was obviously

1233
00:49:07,610 --> 00:49:06,090
the thing to do here especially okay

1234
00:49:08,900 --> 00:49:07,620
I'll see how a person who's talking

1235
00:49:11,300 --> 00:49:08,910
tonight is setting up an oscilloscope

1236
00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:11,310
there which is a pretty nerdy way to

1237
00:49:13,970 --> 00:49:12,690
approach music I think we're gonna have

1238
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:13,980
a new versing evening I think it's going

1239
00:49:19,250 --> 00:49:15,450
to be very tricky actually yes I know

1240
00:49:22,580 --> 00:49:19,260
oscilloscopes things to go beep let's

1241
00:49:24,770 --> 00:49:22,590
see what happens around it I'm just

1242
00:49:27,170 --> 00:49:24,780
sitting next to Heather here and yeah

1243
00:49:28,940 --> 00:49:27,180
you give we the power of podcasting has

1244
00:49:30,650 --> 00:49:28,950
been proven because you on our show as a

1245
00:49:32,980 --> 00:49:30,660
first-time listener they're only the

1246
00:49:35,660 --> 00:49:32,990
other week how's your life changed

1247
00:49:38,150 --> 00:49:35,670
dramatically I cannot walk in the street

1248
00:49:40,250 --> 00:49:38,160
anymore it is just hectic

1249
00:49:42,830 --> 00:49:40,260
I believe you're now doing endorsements

1250
00:49:44,390 --> 00:49:42,840
for Ford and CompuServe things like that

1251
00:49:45,590 --> 00:49:44,400
oh yeah the endorsements have been

1252
00:49:47,330 --> 00:49:45,600
rolling in I'm having a hard time

1253
00:49:49,910 --> 00:49:47,340
filtering them it's like I said it's

1254
00:49:51,470 --> 00:49:49,920
kind of stressful at this point and pull

1255
00:49:52,820 --> 00:49:51,480
all the people that always get worried

1256
00:49:54,590 --> 00:49:52,830
about having a microphone put in front

1257
00:49:56,630 --> 00:49:54,600
of them here has anything bad happen to

1258
00:49:58,790 --> 00:49:56,640
have your friends heckled you made fun

1259
00:50:00,500 --> 00:49:58,800
of you pushed you over in the street all

1260
00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:00,510
of the above but you know it's all in

1261
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:02,850
good sport and will you happy with your

1262
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:03,930
own voice because most people when they

1263
00:50:09,740 --> 00:50:05,610
hear their voice they go oh there is

1264
00:50:12,950 --> 00:50:11,660
well you have to get over it you can't

1265
00:50:14,360 --> 00:50:12,960
take yourself too seriously

1266
00:50:16,580 --> 00:50:14,370
there you go I think that's your answer

1267
00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:16,590
there Richard so basically her life has

1268
00:50:21,380 --> 00:50:18,090
changed for the worse for being on your

1269
00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:21,390
show yeah that's the standard story I'm

1270
00:50:38,120 --> 00:50:23,370
afraid man you said thanks Obama

1271
00:50:38,130 --> 00:50:47,180
[Music]

1272
00:50:54,349 --> 00:50:49,680
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1273
00:50:58,950 --> 00:50:54,359
zone this week and where are they oh yes

1274
00:51:00,839 --> 00:50:58,960
somewhere my little little tray here

1275
00:51:03,479 --> 00:51:00,849
I've got p.m. oh there it goes I've got

1276
00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:03,489
the 10 sided die for those people who

1277
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:05,170
don't listen to after the music you'll

1278
00:51:08,660 --> 00:51:07,690
never know what that means you'll never

1279
00:51:10,799 --> 00:51:08,670
know

1280
00:51:13,019 --> 00:51:10,809
coming up on the skeptic Zone next week

1281
00:51:16,469 --> 00:51:13,029
the first in our series of interviews

1282
00:51:18,299 --> 00:51:16,479
and highlights from skeptic on including

1283
00:51:20,309 --> 00:51:18,309
things like who won The Skeptical Awards

1284
00:51:22,109 --> 00:51:20,319
like the bench spoon award and so on and

1285
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:22,119
interviews with speakers and attendees

1286
00:51:27,809 --> 00:51:26,410
and I know Maynard will be was depending

1287
00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:27,819
on when you're listening to this busy

1288
00:51:32,430 --> 00:51:29,170
with his microphone getting lots of

1289
00:51:34,469 --> 00:51:32,440
interviews but for this week this is

1290
00:51:40,529 --> 00:51:34,479
Richard Saunders signing off from Sydney

1291
00:51:43,259 --> 00:51:40,539
Australia you've been listening to the

1292
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:43,269
skeptic zone podcast please visit our

1293
00:51:52,499 --> 00:51:50,170
website at wwlp.com tax and to access

1294
00:51:56,130 --> 00:51:52,509
the back catalogue of episodes going

1295
00:51:58,940 --> 00:51:56,140
back to 2008 you can follow the skeptic

1296
00:52:01,680 --> 00:51:58,950
zone podcast on twitter at skeptic zone

1297
00:52:03,239 --> 00:52:01,690
visit our facebook page or leave a

1298
00:52:05,910 --> 00:52:03,249
review on itunes

1299
00:52:09,299 --> 00:52:05,920
you can also support the skeptic zone

1300
00:52:12,690 --> 00:52:09,309
via patreon or PayPal the skeptic zone

1301
00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:12,700
podcast is an independent production the

1302
00:52:16,559 --> 00:52:14,410
views and opinions expressed on the

1303
00:52:18,870 --> 00:52:16,569
skeptic zone are not necessarily those

1304
00:52:20,710 --> 00:52:18,880
of Australian skeptics or any other

1305
00:52:30,410 --> 00:52:20,720
skeptical organisation

1306
00:52:35,370 --> 00:52:32,760
hello all the people who listen after

1307
00:52:37,200 --> 00:52:35,380
the music the afterthought or the

1308
00:52:40,680 --> 00:52:37,210
afterthoughts here's enough to thought

1309
00:52:43,470 --> 00:52:40,690
I've got a 10 sided die let's have a go

1310
00:52:44,069 --> 00:52:43,480
I'm gonna roll it three times shaking

1311
00:52:46,780 --> 00:52:44,079
that now

1312
00:52:49,010 --> 00:52:46,790
so use your predicting power first go is

1313
00:52:54,690 --> 00:52:49,020
[Music]

1314
00:52:56,099 --> 00:52:54,700
four they all plane come together well

1315
00:52:57,960 --> 00:52:56,109
that's good timing I did much to the

1316
00:53:00,329 --> 00:52:57,970
voiceovers for this week before the

1317
00:53:01,319 --> 00:53:00,339
plane started four I'm shaking it again

1318
00:53:08,430 --> 00:53:01,329
here we go

1319
00:53:11,099 --> 00:53:08,440
predict away ten for ten next number

1320
00:53:12,539 --> 00:53:11,109
last number is and remember if you get

1321
00:53:20,069 --> 00:53:12,549
all three correct that's one out of a